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Take a deep dive into the financial challenges faced by students heading into Nurse Anesthesia programs. Natalie, who specializes in helping nurse anesthesia students navigate the complex financial landscape of CRNA schooling, shares invaluable advice on managing costs, optimizing financial aid, and preparing for the financial pressures of CRNA school. Her expertise provides you with practical strategies for covering tuition and living expenses, while also considering the broader financial implications of student loans and life after CRNA school.
Whether you’re newly accepted to CRNA school, currently applying, planning your best path or even approaching graduation, this episode is packed with essential financial guidance tailored to your unique educational journey. Natalie offers a detailed exploration of cost of attendance, loan management, and alternative funding sources, ensuring students understand how to access and manage funds responsibly. By tuning in, you’ll gain a clearer understanding of how to approach the financial aspects of CRNA school confidently, reducing stress and setting yourself up for success both academically and professionally.
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Connect with Natalie: https://connect.thrivent.com/roots-financial-group
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Navigating the Financial Challenges of CRNA School
Welcome everybody, back to another episode of CRNA School Prep Academy podcast. I’m your host, Jenny Finnell CRNA, and today we are welcoming back, a very special guest. She’s been on the show before. Natalie Kratzer. Welcome, Natalie.
So good to be back, Jenny. I’m excited. It’s been too long.
Yes, it definitely has been too long. And for those of you who are familiar with CSPA and recognize Natalie, she has been working with CSPA for now four years; she and her team do quarterly webinars for our students. And what’s unique about Natalie and her team is they specialize in just helping SRNAs, NARs, navigate the financial challenges of Nurse Anesthesia school. So if you’re planning on CRNA school, if you’re newly accepted to CRNA school, if you’re in CRNA school, if you’re graduating CRNA school and you’re like, how do I pay off this mountain load of debt? Natalie and her team has your back. So welcome back, Natalie. We’re so excited to have you and we’re going to dive deep you guys into how to pay for CRNA school and all the good stuff that goes with that.
Thank you so much, Jenny. Super excited.
Yeah. Awesome. Me too. So we’ll go ahead and get right into the show because I know everyone’s probably wondering, one of the biggest questions we get from our audience is, will I get enough to be able to pay for tuition and living expenses?
CRNA School Cost of Attendance (COA)
It is obviously such an important question and a tough one from the standpoint of there’s all these what ifs and what is your specific situation. So I’m going to answer this in sort of two kind of high level ways. The first is by explaining there is this concept or term referred to as cost of attendance, or you’ll sometimes hear it abbreviated into COA. So every one of the programs out there has a set cost of attendance. And this cost of attendance in essence is supposed to be the cost of the actual program itself. So your tuition, all the miscellaneous fees that you all have, everything from your AANA membership to your stethoscope, to your conference attendance, all those things that are part of your program boards, study materials, all the things. And also in addition to that, cost of attendance includes your living expenses.
So one person is not like the next person who’s going to be going to school. Some of you are single, some of you have the benefit of being able to move home. Some of you have big families. We was just talking with a student this morning who has a wife who’s a stay at home mom, three kids and another one on the way. Everybody goes to school under different circumstances. And obviously that can mean really big differences in what your need is coming back to the COA. Some programs will look at students just like any other grad student, like a grad student going from undergrad straight into grad school, not being an adult who has lived life, has a house and kids and all the responsibilities. And so that can cause trouble for some of our students. And it’s program specific. We have some financial aid departments that we have a ton of experience with that are absolutely completely understanding.
They totally get the situation of an SRNA or a NAR. And so they are willing to work with you and figure out, okay, yeah, what your need is, is really what your need is. And just because we said your cost of attendance was here because of your situation, you need a little more. I think it’s really important that as you’re navigating the different programs and narrowing down where you think you’re going to go, try to get a sense of what the actual cost of attendance is. And some programs put it right on their website, real easy for you to find. Some don’t, and you got to do a little more research. And then the other piece will be more of the students who’ve been through the program- talking to cohorts above yours and finding out how easy has it been to get additional aid loans if your situation warrants it.
I get why it’s there- It’s there to protect you from taking more loans than what you should. But also, again, some of you’re just in very different situations and you’re going to need the additional lending. It’s just going to be how you get through your three years. And I know I’ve heard you say it, Jenny, it’s like, I don’t want to take the loans, but we got to eat. We got to pay the mortgage. It’s just how you do it, right? That’s kind of the high level. It’s like, yes, that is in terms of federal student loans, the COA also is important for private student loans as well. So sometimes students will come to us and think, oh gosh, okay, well it’s all right. If I don’t get enough in federal student aid, I’ll go get a private student loan. Unfortunately, that won’t get you through in that situation. So you’ll have to look at alternatives and there can be alternatives. Sometimes they’re not ones we like so much, but there can be other ways to get through school if you’re not able to get enough federal financial aid or student loan.
Paying for CRNA School: Try to get a sense of what the actual cost of attendance is when researching CRNA schools to attend
Personal Loans, Private Student Loans and Federal Student Loans
So those personal loans are not enough either? Is that what you’re saying?
So personal loans are different than private student loans. A personal loan is when you go to a bank or a lender and there doesn’t have to be a specific purpose specific for the loan. Now often those personal loans are going to have higher interest rates than what the student loans will, which is why I said sometimes we’re not going to like the options that are out there. The other piece to be aware of, and this goes for both personal loans and also private student loans- more than likely, you the student are not going to be able to get it on your own. As we know, during most of the CRNA programs, you’re not working or you’re working very, very minimally, or you’re working for year one and then it becomes near impossible to work while in school…. You’re not going to qualify for those loans without income, so you’re going to need a co-signer.
I know that that can become kind of a tricky thing to navigate as far as if you ask someone, “Hey, be a co-signer for me, here are the terms as far as if I don’t pay, what does this mean for you?”
Bingo. Yep, you’re exactly right. And co-signer can absolutely be a parent, a spouse, but it can also be non-relation. Actually my husband signed for a friend of his because they were just in a really, really tight spot, and so he was the co-signer for a period of time for their student loan. So the “terms” is an excellent thing to bring up Jenny, because there are, with private loans especially, and I’ll carry that right through to the personal loans also, every lender will have different terms and conditions. There’s quite a few out there that will actually have the co-signer drop off of the loan after a certain period of paying. So sometimes I’ll see 12 months, sometimes have even seen 24 months. But that’s a great piece to bring up if you’re working. If you’re asking somebody, “Hey, can you sign for me?” I joke a little bit about this, but I’m also serious. What is the job placement rate for our CRNAs or our new graduates? It’s up there. And what’s your income level? It’s up there, too. So the odds of you defaulting on that loan and the co-signer needing to repay is pretty low. You and I both have been working with students for how long? I can count on one hand how many haven’t made it through their program, so not that it’s not hard, don’t get me wrong, but again, that likelihood is very low that you’re going to be defaulting on that loan.
Yeah, that’s all good things. You had mentioned something on here about state-based student loans. Is that something different?
State-Based Student Loans
Yes, it is. And this is one that doesn’t get a whole lot of attention. I think a lot of times students just sort of happen upon it if they’re lucky enough. Of course, my team and I make sure that we’re bringing this up for anyone where it’s applicable. So state-based loans referred to as nonprofit, quasi state, all sorts of lingo, right? Basically what it means is a state, and this could be where you live, it could also be where your program is if those are different; you got to do your research here, not every state has these. In essence, it’s like in between the federal and the private loan student loan. Some of them will make you have a co-signer, some will not. The beautiful thing is these almost never have an origination fee, which is something that we have to deal with with federal student loans fee that they assess for the right to take the money out. So those state ones typically don’t have the origination fee, which just brings the overall cost of the loan down. And then often the interest rate itself is quite a bit lower than the federal, and they’re going to be a little easier to get typically speaking than those private student loans.
That sounds, I’ve never even heard of this. This is really exciting.
And a quick Google search typically is going to help whether you’re state has it or not.
And you said it can even be in the program or the state that your program resides in, not just where you currently live, right?
Yes. Yep. Now again, check out the details for each of the states because that’ll be specified in their details of eligibility. But yeah, it could be where the program is, where you live, all different types of options out there.
State loans typically don't have the origination fee, which brings the overall cost of the loan down. Often the interest rate itself is quite a bit lower than the federal, too. Share on X
Yeah, that’s really nice. And what’s popping up all over in CRNA school land is almost what I call almost a hybrid program where they have maybe a home base of the program, but they’re taking students from all across the country and then clinical sites equally all across the country. So I think that this is a really great opportunity to look to have more flexibility when it comes to getting loans that maybe wouldn’t fit everybody who’s going to that school. For some people it would help. So I think that’s great.
Yep. I agree completely.
Awesome. Well, thank you. So I guess we talked a little bit about this as far as having the private sector or the personal loans, but what are some other ways alternative ways to pay for CRNA school, especially if you’re getting that max from the school with regard to financial aid?
Paying for CRNA School with Home Equity
Another piece, and again, this won’t apply to everybody of course, but could be potentially utilizing equity. So we’ve had situations where the student and/or the student’s spouse or a combo owns the home and is able to utilize the equity in the house that they’ve built up. I’ll explain that a little bit more in a second for those don’t fully get that. I’ve also had situations where parents have been willing to use equity. So equity is basically when you buy a home, most people have some level of a mortgage. So the equity is the difference between the balance on the mortgage and what the home is worth, market value, if you will, or appraised value. Okay. Well, with this crazy housing land that we’ve been in here the last few years, I just looked at one for a student earlier this week and she didn’t even realize the value of her home had doubled since she bought it just a handful of years ago.
And so she’s like, oh, wow, yeah, I actually have a whole lot more equity in this thing than I realized I did. And so that equity, the piece, again, the difference between the loan and what it’s worth, you can borrow against that and you typically will do that in what’s called a HELOC, a home equity line of credit. The line of credit part of that is, you can think of it almost like a credit card. When you take out a credit card, it doesn’t mean you have a balance immediately that you have to pay. You just have the available balance. And so the line of credit is the same idea where I have this open balance of money that if and when I need it, I can draw against it.
Again, with all these things, there’s pros and cons to all of ’em, right?
So with the home equity line of credit, I would say one pro is for sure just that it’s there. Even for some of our students, if they are able to get enough in cost of attendance, but maybe they, or excuse me in financial aid, maybe they haven’t been able to build up an emergency savings. So sometimes we’ll say, Hey, just in case of an emergency, let’s get this line of credit open just so you have somewhere where you can go if something happens, right? For other students, they’ll actually use it to pay for their living expenses piece to be cognizant of, and this will depend on the lender as well, you may have to make payments once you ask that because usually, right, you have to then make monthly payments. So using it for living may work in the beginning, but your monthly payments will go up and up and up and up because a lot of times you’ll set it based on interest or an interest only payment. That’s typically an option with those. So again, our team talks a lot about school is really this hiccup on your guys’ journey, this career journey that you’re on. This is a three year hiccup where you’re going, okay, I’ve just got to get through it; a lot of it’s survival.
Figure out what’s that survival mode look like for you. And then the wonderful thing, and I know we’re going to get to this question, but you will be able to get out from under this on the other side, and that’s the key. My team and I sometimes we’re just talking to you off the ledge sometimes. Grace on our crew, she was telling me yesterday, she was talking to a student and she had just looked at her student loan balance and Grace said, “your homework for the next year is to not look at that balance once”.
We know she’s going to be fine.
I’ll never forget this. So when I went to grad school, I had deferred my undergrad loans that I had and I had quite a bit, and I had spent three years paying on that after I graduated as a nurse. And I was making more than the minimum payments, but not a lot more than the minimum payments. And I think it was about a year and a half into my CRNA journey. I remember getting a statement. I remember seeing that I owed over a hundred percent of my undergrad loans. It was like 110%. I remember crying. So I was like, oh, that work, all those three years of payment just gone just from deferring for a year and a half and it was really depressing. But you’re right now my loans are gone. I did spend seven years paying off about a hundred and it was probably closer to $160,000 all said and done. I took seven years to pay it off, but the first two years I kind of neglected. I kind of just making minimum payments. Didn’t think about it. Yeah,
Well, yeah, I was just like, I had kids and got busy and I was making extra payments and I kind of forgot and I was like, Ooh, Jenny, what am I doing? So then I refinanced and then I set up on a five-year payment plan. It was kind of like set it, forget it. And I wish I would’ve done that sooner, but I mean, we didn’t have to sacrifice our lifestyle. We have to buy a house, got to buy new cars, I mean we had kids, we had plenty of other things that we got to do.
Average CRNA School Debt
Yes. And that’s the beauty of the work that we do as we work with students and graduates, we have a plan. There’s going to be a plan, so you know what you’re coming into and how you’re going to tackle the things, how you’re going to tackle the ugly things like the student loans or any other debt that might’ve accrued during school. And also how are we going to do all the cool things that you have the opportunity to do now? So maybe it’s buying a house or having a kid or taking the vacation that you put off for the last three and a half years or whatever that fun thing is. And so we can figure out now that you’re going to have all this income that you really got used to not having, where do we put it and how do we be wise with it?
You also got to start saving for retirement again too. It’s like, okay, there’s all these goals. It can feel so overwhelming and we work our hardest to figure out what and where and when to do all the things. The other thing I’m going to mention too, Jenny, that this is so different from when you graduated. The student loan world from a federal standpoint has been such a changing landscape over the last few years. It’s really been pretty wild and it continues to change. So there’s a lot of new opportunities with regard to different repayment options. There’s a new plan available called the SAVE, and that gives us some new opportunities. Another that’s been around for a long time, the public service loan forgiveness PSLF program. And for some of our students, it’s not applicable to all of our students because you do have to be on what’s called an income driven repayment plan, which means they’re going to look at how much are you making.
Paying for CRNA School: Three to five years is usually our goal for CRNA School loan repayment.
And if you’re making a lot, your payment’s going to be a lot. If you’re making a little, your payment’s going to be a little. So sometimes it doesn’t work or make sense for CRNAs because of the expected income. However, we have several students who they’re coming out with $300,000 or $400,000 of student loan debt based on sometimes not just the grad loans, but undergrad that carried through as well. And so we’re able to work and figure out is it worth it for you to work in a location that is going to qualify you and maybe sacrifice a higher sign on, sacrifice a little bit of a higher wage in order to get $300,000 forgiven, or does it make sense to just go and work and get the higher income in order to pay it off faster? And we can do all that analysis and figure all that stuff out. But it’s interesting. I expect we’re going to keep seeing some of those kinds of programs come out where it’s making this a little more doable on the other side.
That’s good to know. I did know somebody who, she went to all private colleges and had a previous degree from a private school and then went into a private school for CRNA school, and I’m pretty sure it was around $350,000. And I remember them telling me what their minimums were and being like, oh, I mean, it was mortgage!
And so she was kind of in this position where she was like, I essentially have to work to pay my student loans and I don’t get to even enjoy the fruits of my labor from going to CRNA school. So I love the fact that there’s at least another side of this where you can potentially get that forgiven if you pick to work at the right place. Thank you for sharing that and hopefully that’s very minimal amount of people out there. And I don’t know that you can, maybe this is off topic, but I guess what’s an average that you see students come out with and what would be a good number to gauge whether it’s going to be doable to pay off in let’s just say five or seven years? Do you have a ballpark number in mind?
Yeah, I would say the majority of the students we work with three to five years is usually our goal.
Okay.
Now I’ve had a handful of students come and they’ve said, we have so many things that we want to do that we haven’t been able to do, or maybe they’re getting married or buying the house or really big changes immediately. And so sometimes they’ll say, I’m okay hanging on to this debt for a little longer. Now I’ll also say that was in a little bit of a different interest rate environment. Right now, our loan rates for student loans, private loans, home equity lines, they’re higher than we saw five, six years ago. That may or may not be the wise decision, but again, we’ll help and tell you if it’s not. But I would say on average five years is realistic and typically that’s going to be anywhere, I would say between $100,000 and $200,000 of debt. I would say the ideal, and it’s just not going to be realistic for everybody, but the ideal situation would be if you don’t take any debt, of course, but that’s really not realistic. We have a small handful that can do that for a variety of reasons. If you only take what’s called the federal direct unsubsidized, so that’s the one where you’re limited each academic year to $20,500. Those of the federal loan options are the least expensive. They have the lowest origination fee, and they’re always going to be typically 1% lower than the grad plus option.
And remind me, unsubsidized and subsidized, this gets a lot of people tripped up.
Subsidized vs Unsubsidized and Undergrad vs Grad School Loans
It does. So actually I’ll start with the subsidized. So subsidized are only available on undergrad loans. So graduate loans, no such thing as a subsidized. Subsidized loans are ones where while they’re deferred, so while you’re not making payments because you’re back in school, the interest won’t accrue. So those ones are gold. So if you’re preparing to go to school and your only debts left are undergrad debts and you really want to try and pay those off, the subsidized ones should be the last ones that you’re focused on.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. It is. Unfortunately they don’t do that for grad school. That seems silly to me, but yeah, at least clarifying so people understand why because some of people are confused. They don’t qualify for that anymore because they’re used to that in undergrad, and it’s just kind of a new reality..
You made me think of something I didn’t share and maybe should have earlier with one of your questions, kind of that confusion between undergrad and grad Jenny. The FAFSA application itself, you’re going to the same website, you’re answering the same kind of questions. Big difference though, in undergrad there was really so much depended on where the income levels were, the assets, and really at that point it was your parents’ income and assets. For graduate school, of course, number one, it’s just you or your household I should say. So if you’re married rather than the amount being offered being so dependent on that income information; it’s not really a thing with grad loans- you are going to get the same offer for the most part that the person next to you and the person next to them is going to get. So everybody’s going to have access to that $20,500 per academic year for federal direct unsubsidized. And then for the most part, everybody will have more or less the same amount available to them for the grad plus.
Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that and I’m glad we’re going to talk about scholarships. I get this question quite often. So what are opportunities out there for scholarships for CRNA students?
Scholarships for CRNA School
Yes. So the first thing is, and Jenny, I know you know this already, a lot of them, you can’t really do a whole lot until you’re actually a student, which is a little bit annoying because at that point, time is one of your most precious resources, and last thing you want to do is more paperwork or a new application. So the AANA has some lovely opportunities both at the national level and then at the state level as well. I just had talked to a gal earlier this week. She qualified for one for her fall semester, she’s going to have $3,000 coming. Yay. I think that’s something to kind of tuck in the back of your head though. A lot of the scholarships are going to be smaller amounts, so different than undergrad where you might qualify for those big ones through the school.
A lot of the scholarships are going to be smaller amounts; a few thousand here or there, but they add up, right? Share on X
You’re going to probably have a few thousand here or there, but they add up, right? It makes a big difference. Some schools, some programs do have opportunities for scholarships. University of Minnesota is one that comes to mind. I know they have some right through the school and the nurse anesthesia program at VCU has some, so make sure you’re asking the questions. A lot of times, again, you will be able to with a little bit of digging, find those on the website for the school, the HRSA, they have programs. Now that one is a little bit interesting because it’s going to be based on what the need is around the country. It’ll change. So some years those are going to be not inclusive of CRNAs, but other types of nurses or doctors or dentists. So you just have to check it out and see what that year is bringing you.
The VA, Veterans Affairs, they have some available and then there’s some companies out there as well. And so typically I’ve found these via social following some different anesthesia based companies. Sometimes they’re companies that offer job boards kind of a deal. Sometimes they’re ones that are offering education for student nurse anesthetists or nurse anesthetists. And I know somebody very lovely sitting right in front of me who also has a lovely one that she started through CSPA. So Pay it Forward CRNA, which is a lovely, lovely program getting off its ground. Let’s see, I also talked to a student last week. This one made me laugh so hard. So she is just going to be starting her program. She is a huge fan of heavy metal music and she found a scholarship that is for fans of heavy metal in the sciences.
Oh my gosh, I know who you’re talking about by the way. I just saw that she was a metalhead. I’m like, oh, I had no idea, but now I know exactly who you’re talking about. That’s cool.
Good for her. So there’s some really cool ones out there. You just got to do a little bit of digging. And our crew, we become more and more familiar so often if there’s somebody where we’re like, oh, this one might fit for you, we’ll try and make sure we’re bringing those up during the planning process. But also word of mouth as you’re going through a program, talking to cohorts above you, especially if you’re going to a state that you’re not familiar with or a program that you don’t know, one that you’re just getting to know, talk to people. That’s where you may learn about other things.
Awesome, thank you. Thank you. That was great. That’s a lot of options there and ones that you may not have ever thought about to look for, so that’s great. Some other things that are not loans such as military or even like an employer sign-on, how common are those options for students or do these things come in waves?
Will Your Employer Pay for CRNA School? What About Sign-On Bonuses?
Over the years we’ve seen things come and go. We’ve seen them show up a little bit differently, but I will say right now especially, we’re seeing a lot of the employer sign-on options. Our team, we like to refer to these as front end and backend options. So I think most people are familiar with and would think about the backend, which that in our minds, that’s when you’ve determined you’re in probably your final year and you’ve talked to an employer and you’re ready to go. They’re the one and you’re going to sign on with them and you’re going to have a bonus that comes to you. And that bonus can show up in a whole bunch of different ways. It might be one big old sign on like 30 days after you’ve started. Some employers will space that out. They might give you the first chunk at 30 days, the next chunk at six months, the next chunk at two or three years.
And so with that, you can imagine if they’re going to not give you that next chunk until a little further out, they’re expecting you to be around. So you do have to make sure you’re paying attention to the details within the contract. So most often, I don’t think I’ve actually seen anywhere this is not the case. You’re going to have some period of time that you’re committing to working for them. And if you leave, there’s going to be different stipulations on what that looks like. And again, pay attention to the details. I’ve seen lately, I mean literally just within the last couple of months we’ve seen ones where, okay, if you leave early, you’re just going to owe the literally to the day, the difference between what you were paid from your bonus and what you didn’t get. And there’s no penalty or anything interest or anything like that. I’ve seen other ones where you owe all of it back and you owe all of it back within a 30 day period of time. I’ve seen other ones where you owe it all back plus interest over the period, so you want to know what you’re getting into.
Paying for CRNA School: Right now, we’re seeing a lot of the employer sign-on bonus options in the market.
A hundred percent. That was my case. I mean, it didn’t affect me, but it affected people that I had worked with who left. And it was a shocker that they had to pay all that back quickly. And it was not a small chunk of change. I mean, my sign-on was about $35,000 and they actually gave it to you as a stipend while you’re still in school. So I got to use it, which helped us through that last year. And then what happened is I paid taxes on it for a certain period of time after I graduated. And that was kind of a bummer to stick on your paycheck once you graduate. But I mean, it is what it is. It was free money at the time. But yeah, if you left before the term, which was four years for us, it was hefty penalties. And one piece of advice I’d tell everyone, and don’t get me wrong, it was great- It worked out great for me. I did work there for four and a half years, so I put my time in.
But you want to make sure that you’re talking to people prior to taking a job with a contract like that because if the work environment is really miserable and you’re not going to be happy there, you don’t think you can last for four years or however long the term is, you may have some major regrets. So biggest piece of advice is one of the best questions I have found in my time being a CRNA to find out before you take a job is ask what your most senior CRNA is there, how long have they been there? That gives you a really good indication of the longevity of where you’re getting ready to work. If they tell you the most senior CRNA is 10 years and then the next one’s three years, that’s kind of, in my opinion, a red flag versus we have someone who’s been here for 20 years, 15 years, multiple people there for 10, 15 years. That’s a good sign. So ask about the longevity of the staff, how long the CRNAs who are currently working, how long they’ve been there.
I agree completely. And I will say the majority of our students who are accepting those kind offers, they’ve done some sort of a clinical rotation at that site. So they have a better sense literally from being in the environment. And that usually brings us more confident, say the same kinds of things, like please be asking the questions, know what you’re getting into. Is it the kind of cases that you want to work on? If you don’t like OB, don’t go somewhere that does OB.
Right? You’re not going to love it. You hate it now.
But the ones that we refer to as backend sign-ons, like what you had where you get some sort of a stipend or we’ve seen it here lately, there’s an employer down kind of southeast that’s referring to it as “earn as you learn”. And so you get some kind of a payment throughout usually that last year, year and a half of school. And now with this group you get that and you also get a sign on, which is pretty crazy. So I think for at least right now for our recent grads or our upcoming grads, you’re in the driver’s seat.
Nice. Are you seeing about $30,000? Are you seeing more like $60,000 or $70,000 sign-on bonus, or what’s the average?
It depends on the part of the country that you’re in, and it also depends on what the time period is that you’re committing to. So anywhere from about $30K for a sign-on all the way up to like $80K, $85K, even $100,000 sign on bonuses.
Now the other thing that we’re seeing is that you do have a little more wiggle room; So for instance, we’ve got several who said, I don’t know that I’m ready to commit to the three year with that high of a sign on. Could I commit to a two year with a lower sign on? And a lot of the employers are willing to flex that depending, not everybody, obviously, it’s not a guarantee, but we’re seeing a lot who are flexing.
Interesting or maybe even the opposite, I want to work here for four years. Can you double instead of two years? Can you double how much you’re paying me? Right? I mean, if you know this is really where you want to be if you’re certain, absolutely.
That’s right. One more thing I want to make sure I mention, and this is again, not going to be important for everybody, but a lot of our students, depending on the state that they’re in, they or their family or a combo of the two for health insurance are utilizing Medicaid, the state-based Medicaid programs. Just be aware if you’re looking at one of those front end bonuses that you’re now going to be having income.
Oh, that counts.
So yes, you have to pay attention and make sure is it worth it to get it early? Is it not worth it to get it early?
Dealing with private medical and let me tell you right now, we’ve navigated that. It is horrendous.
It’s crazy.
If you can get government help with that, it would make your life so much easier than trying to navigate private because you get nothing and you pay a lot for it.
Unfortunately.
Military CRNA School
One question I had recently from someone, and this has to do with the military service, they were asking me because they were thinking about joining the, I think it was the reserves, but was they wanted to join before they went to school. I thought, I didn’t know, you can’t really be active while you’re in school. You can’t really get deployed or have active duty while you’re in school. So I told ’em it might be more of an option for afterwards or if they have the time beforehand to do it. So what are your thoughts on that?
So the first thing I’ll say is make sure you’re talking with the recruiter and understanding all those things that you just said. I feel like every branch is a little bit different and whether you’re going full-time reserves, etc, all the different options, it’s going to look a little bit different. But we have actually had some of our students that we’ve done planning with who have signed up midstream and you now have access to health benefits. You often are going to get a stipend of some sort each month. We’ve had some who were already active duty prior to going to school and again worked with their recruiter to figure out what’s the transition going to look like, what does this mean? And then there’s also programs where you can literally join because you want to become a CRNA within that branch of the military. That’s a whole different animal. I’ve had several students go through that. And again, it’s kind of like what we’re talking about with the employer signups. Don’t do it just because your program’s going to be paid for. You are still signing up to give back to our country and serve our country. So make sure you understand all the details that are involved. I will say though, absolutely 100% any option that you may have with the military from a financial standpoint, it’s going to provide some really good stability and benefits during your time.
Yeah, it definitely will. But yeah, I love the fact that you have to consider the obligations too. I mean, especially for, I still think the majority, I think CRNA world’s more 50/50 men, women, but for women, I know my thought would be like, are you going to start a family after school? And if you committed to the military, what is that going to look like for you? And also if you have kids what about relocating. So I’m in my whole mother brain now, but I always think about stuff like that when I’m committing to something what is not just me, but my ability to have children and provide for my family and move my family around the country. So those are things you have to think about that maybe your younger self wouldn’t care about, but five, six years from now we were done with school, you’d be like, well, wait a minute, what did I do?
Think way ahead. If you’re thinking military, think way ahead of where am I going to be in 5, 6, 7, 10 years? Because it could be a very long commitment that you’re making. Okay. Awesome. Well, this has been so helpful. I don’t know, do you want to touch on just a little bit of dealing with will my loans ever go away? What happens as far as after the fact?
Getting Your First Paycheck As A CRNA
Yeah, absolutely. Again, I would say there’s a few heads-up kind of pieces that I want to share. So the first one, which isn’t directly your question, but don’t forget that when you graduate, you don’t immediately have an income as a CRNA. You’ve got to take boards first and then credentialing. And we’ve heard some horror stories about the length of time for credentialing lately. Even with boards, I just saw some of our recent grads here in central Pennsylvania. One gal had something on social media where she was refreshing the page to schedule and she’s like, yep, still nothing. Still nothing. I’m like, oh, no. So there’s certain things you’re not going to have control over, be prepared for at least. I would say ideally, if you can be prepared for 8 weeks to 12 weeks of no income, you want to be ready for that.
So again, boards then credentialing, and then also you start the job, but you don’t get paid day one, right? Yeah, it’s going to take two to four weeks depending on their pay cycle. So just be ready for that. So then, yeah, will the loans go away? There will be, in the majority of cases, you’re going to have a six month grace period after you graduate, before your loans start to become due again. And the reason I said “usually” is that you do need to be cognizant. Some of the programs that last semester, you’re not considered a full-time student. And so we’ve had a few students get a little bit of a surprise from their student loan servicer where they’re graduating and they’re at graduation time and they’re getting notices that their loans are due to be paid. And they’re like, what? I’m not even out yet.
It’s because they’re not considered full-time, so the loans have come out of deferment and they didn’t even realize it. So usually in those circumstances there’s ways to get some adjustments there, but it’s going to take a little bit of work with the loan servicer, potentially with your financial aid department, just again, something to have a heads up on.
CRNA School Loan Repayment
So after that whole graduation, boards, you’re working again, the six month grace period is over- Now what? We talked a little bit about it already, but there are going to be different options for those repayments. You’re automatic for your loans or the standard option, as I’ll say, is going to be a 10 year payback. It’s just going to say, here’s your loan balance. They’re going to figure out how much is interest and how much is principal. And by the end of 10 years, you’re going to be done. It’ll be paid for.
But then there are these income driven repayment programs and there’s a bunch of old ones out there. Some of them are not available to new loans anymore. There’s that SAVE option that I mentioned already. And so there can be a decent amount of work there to figure out what’s the best situation for where we are or me or my family. And then the other piece, and I think you already referenced it, Jenny, there is the ability to do refinancing or refi. You’ll hear ’em shorten too. Now, if I was graduating right now today and I had a chunk of loans, I would probably not refinance those because loan rates right now are really high. It’s this high interest rate environment as we say.
Paying for CRNA School: There are going to be different options for those CRNA School loan repayments.
But tons of people, when rates were really low in 2020, 2021, even 2019, they refinanced and were getting 2% or 3% so it took them no time to get from out from under those loans because most of the payment they were making was going to the principle balance. The principle, the piece that we typically recommend, and I’ve talked around and about this a little bit, but ideally after school, you don’t just jump in headlong to doing and buying all the things you didn’t do for three years. Hold off- and I know you Jenny, you didn’t buy the big, crazy fancy new car. You kept hanging onto that little bugger as long as you could. And sometimes you do need to buy a house. Some of those kinds of things are going to be out there. But where and when you can, try and make that transition slowly into actually using all the income that you have. That way you can figure out what money should go where to balance out all of the different goals and frankly speaking, not be hanging on to that debt for forever and ever.
Yes, a hundred percent. And I love everything you mentioned here. One thing that I would love to add for graduation and potentially expecting your first paycheck, I know based on even on my own experience and other people, sometimes it can be up to three months. That’s fair. But then you graduate, take boards and get your first paycheck. I graduated in August and I started working in October because credentialing can be up to three months long. I started working in October and got my first paycheck, but before that I took out a credit card, paid myself through a credit card loan to get through that three month period. Luckily I had good credit, so I was able to do that very cheaply. And that was a low, very low interest rate environment. That was back when I could get a loan to myself, money for 3%. So private loans, and still to this day, if you have good credit, you can write yourself a check for your line of credit for 3% or 4% if you have good credit.
I’m not saying that you don’t have to be careful. You make sure you hold to the terms, if it’s 12 months, 18 months, pay that sucker off, or else it jumps like 24% or something ridiculous. Oh yeah, be careful with that. But I also had that experience where I dropped in credit hours, so my forbearance was eliminated. I had dropped below full-time credit hours, but I was actually in clinical a lot, but it wasn’t counted as credit hours. This was like mid schooling. This happened to me and I’m like, wait a minute, I still have a year to go. But I had to get with the program director and like you said, the financial department, it was kind of annoying. It was just like an extra stressor that I had to deal with, but it was easily solved. It just took some paperwork to get it solved. And I love the fact that you mentioned the standard will be set at 10 years.
Don’t pay attention to that because ideally don’t want to take 10 years to pay off your debt. You have the ability not to do that. And like you said, when I graduated, a lot of my colleagues, well, they are my colleagues, but a lot of my peers, a lot of my students, they went and got a BMW or something. I had a Nissan Sentra, her name was old Betty. I could remember her name. Yeah, literally she was my used my car in undergrad. She was paid off, and I remember I finally got rid of her when it was a snowstorm. It was one of those level three snowstorms and only emergency workers going to work. And so anyways, I’m trying to get my fricking car. It’s buried. I was renting a house at that time in Toledo trying to un-bury it from the snow, and I was six months pregnant trying to do all this anyways, and so I went to open my door and I realized there was a layer of ice underneath all the snow.
So I was being really in rush like, oh, come on, car started yanking on the door, the door handle just broke off. And I’m like, oh my gosh. So then I’ve got to get in my car. So I had to crawl on my passenger door, six months pregnant, crawl into my seat and get in the car. I’m like, okay, Jenny, it is time. I’m going to have a big few months here. I got to get a new car and I still have that Honda Pilot today. I went out and bought my 2016 Honda Pilot, which I got into 2015. I still have that car and it still runs great. But yeah, I think just being smart about how you do spend your money, it will add up very quickly. I know when we finally bought a house, we thought we got a deal by getting a foreclosure, and it wasn’t exactly what it was like became a muddy pit as most houses do.
And it’s like boom, new roof right away, or you don’t have home insurance. I’m like, what? Pass inspection? So that was $17,000. Boom, just gone. So it got expensive pretty quickly being a homeowner. So I think it’s just taking time to figure out how to set your loans up for a repayment and a timeline that suits your lifestyle first before you go out and buy a house and buy a car. Making sure you have that teed up first. And also making sure you’re setting aside, like you said, money for retirement for your savings, because you don’t want to be living paycheck to paycheck. I mean, you’ve put all this effort and time into going into grad school, and it may mean that you might have to wait an additional five or six years to have the dream lifestyle that you were envisioning for yourself when you’re done with CRNA school. But it’ll be worth it because you’re not going to be living paycheck to paycheck as a CRNA, but it can happen if you’re not smart about your money.
I agree completely. I will say the one challenge we often see with the nurses going into school, when you were working as a nurse, if you wanted something, what did you do? Picked up extra shifts or hours
And then you go to school and you’re like, oh, that’s not a thing anymore. Thankfully as a CRNA, that does become a thing again. So sometimes we will have those people who they have these extra things that they want to do and they want to pay their loans off so they’re willing to pick up PRN somewhere or they know that they’re going to do a 24 hour shift once a month or whatever it may be. Okay, now we’re talking. Now it may be okay and realistic and feasible to do all the things right away. You have to remember, there’s only so many resources, right, that you’ve got to spread across all the different goals that you and your family might have.
Yes. Awesome. This is also too when students can reach out to you for help of course. I mean, I really think help should really start prior to going to school, but I know equally me my own self, I didn’t necessarily know, I never really had a lot of guidance prior and I never really had the mindset of financial planning. But I do think it’s a smart thing to start early on, but it’s really never too late to get started. So I would love for you to share how our audience can connect with you, Natalie. Also if you’re part of CSPA, Natalie and her team are wonderful. Grace is wonderful. She works with CSPA and she has these quarterly financial webinars. So if you want more information, if you have specific questions, again, every single quarter inside of CSPA, they graciously give you their time and guidance in these free webinars.
So if you’re asked in a CRNA school interview “Have you financially prepared for CRNA school?”, you can have this all beautifully laid out and have in your mind what you want to do and how you’re going to get through it, it’s going to be really impressive for the schools. You do not want to leave CRNA school because you haven’t financially prepared for it. So, how can people get in touch with you, Natalie, and your team?
Absolutely. And you are right. I’ve heard many times that that is a question that is asked during the interview process, so you’ll be ready. And we agree the earlier you get started the better, but certainly anytime is the right time. You can’t rewind. So the time is now.
You can get in touch with us by checking out either our website, which I’ll make sure Jenny links in the show notes, and also you can text our team. We have a line where you get ahold of any one of us, (717) 954 – 0032, and you can text us right there and get a hold of us live. You can find us on social, we’re on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn, and we would love to just schedule a 30 minute consultation with you so that we can learn a little bit more about you. You can learn more about us and how we work and what the process looks like, and we go from there and we determine if it’s a good fit, and we’re going to let you know if we think you’re all good to go.
But we’ll also let you know if we think that there’s value we can bring to your situation and be able to help you. Jenny, I appreciate what you said too. It’s like, okay, what is this financial planning thing and being able to admit that maybe you don’t know all the things. We tell all of our SRNAs and RNAs- I know Propofol, it’s about all I got when it comes to anesthesia. So why should you know all things about money, right? So we’re here to help. I’m going to go to you when I need a block, a nerve block. You can come to me when you need help with paying off your CRNA school student loans.
Awesome. Well, thank you Natalie. And for those of you listening, I’ll make sure I link to put the cell phone text message number in the show notes as well. Thank you, Natalie. I appreciate your time and for all of you listening, thank you so much. I appreciate you as well. We’ll see you next week.
Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to head over to www.crnaschoolprepacademy.com to gather free resources to help you on your CRNA journey. Stay strong. We’re rooting for you Future CRNA.
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Important Links
FREE! 8 Steps to Becoming a CRNA: https://www.cspaedu.com/ruxzegbt
Join the Free CSPA Community! Connect with a network of Aspiring CRNAs, Nurse Anesthesia Residents, practicing CRNAs and CRNA Program Faculty Mentors here: https://www.cspaedu.com/community
Get access to application & interview preparation resources plus ICU Educational Workshops that have helped 1,000s of nurses accelerate their CRNA success. Become a member of CRNA School Prep Academy: https://cspaedu.com/join
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Book a mock interview, resume or personal statement critique, transcript review and more: www.teachrn.com
Connect with Natalie and her Team: https://connect.thrivent.com/roots-financial-group or (717) 954-0032
